Comments on: The Hunting of the Stout

By: david

david — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:17:53 +0000

The Czech dark beer style called Tmavy reminds me of the English stouts I have had in the past. My whine is that they add artificial sweeteners to too many of the dark beers here, get over this (find ones that don’t) and they are excellent.
Like the Blog, came here via Prague Monitor. Thx.

By: Lew Bryson

Lew Bryson — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:57:14 +0000

I wish I knew more about historic Irish distilling practices.

I will readily admit that Connemara and the rest of the Cooley output is dwarfed by Midleton and Bushmills. But “exceptions to the rules” seems perhaps a bit too dismissive when neither of us knows how far back the triple-distillation tradition goes. For the record, if you ask the three Irish distillers the same question — “What makes Irish whiskey different?” — you’ll get three different answers: I’ve talked to all three within the past year. But the one that comes closest is the subjective sense that it is smoother and more floral/fruity than Scotch whisky. One distiller suggested that the damp, temperate climate had something to do with it; another that Irish distillers focus more on preserving fermentation characteristics.

As usual — happily — more research is needed.

By: zythophile

zythophile — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 21:31:30 +0000

I think there’s a definite sense that for the whisk/e/y drinker “Irish” means something different from “Scotch”, with the implication that Irish whiskey will be smoother and lighter, which will be down to those differences usually associated with the making of Irish whiskey against Scotch, that is, triple distilling and so on, and while you can find exceptions to the rules, such as double-distilled “boutique” whiskeys in Ireland like Connemara, even in the “mass market” brands you could tell, say, Bell’s as representing something different to Paddy. But I’m prepared to be told that I’m wrong, particularly as I hardly ever drink Irish whiskey and generally stick to just a couple of favourite Scotches …

By: Lew Bryson

Lew Bryson — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 20:13:32 +0000

But the BCJP perpetuates the idea that “Irish Stout” is a qualitatively differentiated style, like Irish whiskey, and not just a geographical description, like Irish Cheddar.

I’d have to argue that one. How exactly is Irish whiskey qualitatively different from Scotch whisky? Triple distillation? Connemara isn’t, and Auchentoshan is. Raw barley in the mash? Only at Midleton. No peat? Plenty of Speysides with no peat, and again, Connemara uses peated malt. Irish whiskey is whiskey made in Ireland. No problem with that, myself: I love them. But where do you put the finger on that qualitative difference?

By: Kristen England

Kristen England — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:04:16 +0000

From research and practice experience Ive found that the same recipe brewed in London and Dublin will finish quite different. Traditionally, the massive carbonates in Irish/dublin water REALLY dry out the finish of beers with roasty character, namely stouts. Its really hard to tell this commercially anymore. Even Guinness brewed in Dublin isn’t the same as it used to be. They take nearly everything out of the water before they brew with it only adding back what they believe they need. This is becoming more and more the case with bigger breweries.

By: zythophile

zythophile — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 21:47:35 +0000

Mmmm, Farm Stout - originally brewed by the very much lamented Rayment’s of Pelham, and as you correctly say, Paul, a delicious sweet stout - beter than Mackeson, I thought, with a terrific caramelly flavour.

By: Paul Garrard

Paul Garrard — Tue, 19 Feb 2008 13:41:04 +0000

Thanks for a wonderful ‘article’, or is that post? Who knows what would have happened if Watneys hadn’t taken the money? Great to speculate. As a teenager I progressed from GK Harvest (sweet brown ale) onto their Farm Stout. Only ever available in bottles and now long gone. I think there is a place for the ’sweet’ stout.

By: Ron Pattinson

Ron Pattinson — Sat, 16 Feb 2008 12:53:39 +0000

I’m pretty sure the M.A. stands for Mild Ale, too.

I hadn’t really looked at this log in detail before. I was surprised to see no black malt or roast barley. You have to go back to the 1840’s to find London Porter or Stout without either. I’m not doubting it would be dark, just that it wouldn’t be roasty.

The more I look at it, the more interesting the recipe looks. You never know, I might one day get the 1952 Extra Stout brewed.

By: zythophile

zythophile — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:37:12 +0000

No, but there ain’t no pale malt in there, assuming (as I think we can) M.A. stands for Mild Ale malt - 16 per cent of brown and chocolate malt would give a pretty dark beer, and at least two of the sugars are No 3, the dark variety …

By: Ron Pattinson

Ron Pattinson — Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:26:58 +0000

I’ve added details of Whitbread WS Stout from 1952. It contains neither black malt nor roast barley.

Next week my very own London Stout, Whitbread SSS from 1914 should be bottled.